Elmers glue still visible on fired piece?

Hello,
I have tack fused some pieces of cathedral glass onto a base (at 720C / 1328F) but the glue is still visible, even though I used it very sparingly. Unfortunately I've not managed to get hold of Klyr-Fire glue here in the UK, which apparently is a much better option.
Would the glue burn off if I'd fire again? If so, at which temperature would the glue 'disappear'?
Many thanks
Nora

* if the glue (probably just carbon now) is sealed under the glass it is there to stay. i find that a soak at 1000f in a vented kiln allows any amount of whatever type of glue to go away before the glass fuses. rosanna

* I did do a soak but at 510C / 950F (for 27 minutes) and didn't vent the kiln - oh well, another lesson learned.
Many thanks Rosanna!

* You can get non-aerosol hairspray in the UK, the cheaper the better. The pump stuff.
You can spray it on your glass, paint it, drip it, slather it, hold frit together in a mound, spray it on the base, middle and top, let it dry, and it will freeze your work to get it into the kiln, burn out, and you'll be happier, I promise!
Throw the Elmer's away or give it to the kids. It's not worth it. The carbon stains remain forever.
I don't like Klyr Fire, either, as it takes a lot of heat to burn it completely out, and tack firing is a mess. Plus, it takes so long to dry!
Just try the hairspray, it works.

* Brilliant - great advice! I was going to order Klyr Fire from America but now I'm going to try hairspray instead!
Thank you!

* I was wondering if adding a layer of glue wash to the glass surface would help paint stick better (something to grip onto), if I paint with a brush (I'm using Glassline paints). I haven't tried it yet. Is that what you mean when you say use hairspray and paint it?
Also, my kiln is in my basement. I havent's vented anything yet and have been avoiding using anything that requires venting. I am realizing that it is stopping me from lots of techniques I want to try. I have a peep hole plug. If I open that, and put a window fan in basement window blowing outwards, would this be appropriate? I don't have the right wiring in my garage yet and don't see it happening anytime soon.

* Elmer's seems to work fine if the glue is near the edge of the piece of glass. That way, air can get to it and the fumes from the burn off can escape.

* I was wondering if adding a layer of glue wash to the glass surface would help paint stick better (something to grip onto), if I paint with a brush (I'm using Glassline paints). I haven't tried it yet. Is that what you mean when you say use hairspray and paint it?
Also, my kiln is in my basement. I havent's vented anything yet and have been avoiding using anything that requires venting. I am realizing that it is stopping me from lots of techniques I want to try. I have a peep hole plug. If I open that, and put a window fan in basement window blowing outwards, would this be appropriate? I don't have the right wiring in my garage yet and don't see it happening anytime soon. that should work fine. rosanna

* Thanks Dawn! I have only been working with glass since September so all the replies are very helpful! I think I'll try and give the hairspray a go, as suggested by Barbara, if I can avoid using Elmer's but there will be times when I can't avoid using it even with cathedral glass, for example, when I need a strong adhesive for upside down firing, but I'll definitively make sure to leave an escape route for the fumes and glue the sides only when I do have to use Elmer's - thanks for the valuable tip!

* Sorry - I'm lost on that one.... Upsidedown firing?
I can't picture upsidedown firing......
Have I missed something?

* Hi Drew!
There's probably a proper term for it, even better than the one I made up...
What I meant with upside down firing is firing with the base layer on top. I use this a lot when I want to ensure that pieces of glass have a clean edge rather than a 'melted' look. I also find I have to flip pieces over and refire them again upside down to get rid of the millions of bubbles I invariably have in pieces I fire that are any bigger than 28cm ( I think I have annealing issues )

* Nina/Nora
I think thats generally called "flip and fire"... and I (sort of) thought thats what you meant... Its just that I didn't see where the use of (stronger) glue would be beneficial....
If your glass holds together long enough (to carry it to the kiln and load) then once you fire it - up to a tack fuse or higher... thats it.. its done..
ie any Glue (or carbon residue) that hasn't burnt off by then... won't! Its sealed in between the fused glass pieces.
So if your glue/hairspray/spit/will power (and steady hand) works for long enough to fire it..... then your done..... stronger glue for "flip and fire"/"upsidedown firing" won't make any difference...
Bubbles... now theres a whole new topic.... I would suggest a search for "Bubble AND Squeeze" and you will get some suggestions for schedules to "help" (although you are right upsidedown firing is also suggested).

* Hi Drew,
Flip and Fire does sound better... as for using strong adhesive, I've used Elmer's in the past to glue several pieces of opaque glass up to ca 12cm diameter onto a fused base and then flipped the whole thing over before putting it into the kiln for firing. This is for more intricate pieces (well, my beginner's version of intricate) when I dona€?t want to assemble the different parts in the kiln and then put the base layers on top - not even with my sister and my will power combined would we be able to manage to take the work to the kiln upside down without creating a whole lot of frit!
Thank you for the suggestion to search for the 'Bubbles and Squeeze' topic, ita€?s very helpful - I'll do that now!
Cheers
Nora

* You will still need to vent (just pull the plug or prop your lid about a quarter to a half an inch) and add a hold at 1000F or 537.78c to be sure that the carbon will burn completely out and not stain the glass...but non aerosol hairspray is definitely great as a glue.

* Dilute PVA glue will work very well - about 1 pt PVA to 20 water.
It sounds to me like you are putting way too much glue on your pieces. I only put it at the edges of the glass.
In my opinion if you can flip an unfired piece upside down with glue holding the glass on, there is too much glue that is bound to leave bubbles and stains on the glass.
If you really can't assemble the pieces in the kiln and then put the base layer over, you could try putting the glass pieces on card, then using small dots of glue on each piece before putting the base layer on top. When glue is dry, move the whole uint to the kiln, and slip the card out from underneath. This would reduce the amount of glue used and reduce some of your problems.
Of course, if you could build upside down in the kiln, you would need no glue and remove a number of your problems.
STeve

* How many pieces of regular glass = 12 cm? I am definitely math challenged here.
If you stack your glass, one piece upon another, with the hair spray, let it dry, you can then keep right on stacking, and you really should not have any problems. To speed up this process, have an old electric frying pan nearby, and heat it up to low, place your glass in it, and it will dry the hair spray in minutes, rather than 1/2 hour or a bit more.
"Painting" simply means that you use a paint brush for your method of application of the hair spray......for instance, pour it out of its container, into a bowl, wine glass , etc., and then use the brush to place it where you need it.
I don't worry about venting the kiln with the hairspray. After all, I used it for over 45 years 4 inches from my nose and eyes, and am still alive.
Would need to have an expert familiar with the exact ingredients, and how they work at the temperatures to explain the toxic qualities when heated.

* I have got the best results with
*Clear nail polish*
It is strong, it has the brush with it, dries fast.
I avoid using it between the glass, only painting dabs
around the edges.
A cheaper alternative is the hobby glue used for model airplanes. The brand here is UHU Hart. It is the same
stuff as nail polish (cellulose acetate). Comes in tubes.
One surprising trick is to use saran wrap. It too burns out
clean and goes only over and around the piece.
I fire the glued elements on 2 mm fiber paper so the fumes
below the glass have an escape route. A soak
before 600 C to give it time to burn off.
-lauri

* for single layer works
I glue the pieces on unfired fiber paper first,
then lay on the flip and fire base glass.
Look, mom, no glue between the glass !
-lauri

* I've just come in and read all the new posts - so many brilliant tips you wouldn't find in any book!
Thank you all for your replies!!!!
Nora

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