liquid gold lustre?

In today's Warm Tips, Brad gives advice about liquid gold. The product he is referring to is liquid gold lustre for glass.
Liquid Gold lustre for ceramics is quite different. Ferro gives the temperature range for theirs as 700?oC - 900?oC That is 1292?oF - 1652?oF This is a suitable range for application during a fuse firing on glass.
I have used both Ferro's gold and platinum lustres fired to 1380 with a 40 minute hold with great success. Hannovia makes a similar product available at most pottery supply houses. The Ferro comes in minimum size of 100 grams. The Hannovia comes in tiny bottles. Prices fluctuate according to the precious metal markets.

* I"ve only used the Hanovia for ceramics, but with great success. I was using it yesterday actually and spilled my little precious bottle. Damn! Knocked it over, and it was like slow motion...reaching over to right it...and watching the contents flow out all over my cutting table. Aaaargh.
YOu can use the black, blue, red, gold, white gold, platinum, silver, copper and all the halo colors with good success on glass.

* While this may be a matter of semantics, I wanted to know if the Ferro gold pen is what you are talking about. I have yet to obtain one but want an easy way to apply a few gold accent on occasion, is this good way to do it?
Some firing guidelines would be helpful...What I have read is that you can cap it or not but I dona€?t know the temps.
I also wanted to know about using devit spray on gold or the Ferro gold pen. I used some "gold" decals on a project they came out beautifully. I found the need to use devit on the piece (should have kept it off them) when it emerged from the kiln they were dull and while still kind of cool, ruined IMO.
Is this the case with the Ferro pen as well?
Thx
Rod

* I have not used the Ferro pen. I regularly use the Hanovia gold in my Kemper Fluid writer pen - I think it is easy to use and you get a lot of control. It is just amazing how much writing you can do with only a few drops of liquid! I use a toothpick to put drops into the pen. They come in a fine point or a thick point. I have only used the fine point and it has worked great for me. I am diligent about cleaning it immediately after use, I understand some people have clogged theirs from not cleaning often enough.
I apply the gold before a slump, or just refire at a low temp if I am not slumping (it seems to turn to gold around 1000 in my kiln). I have not used devit spray on top of gold.

* Rod
I never used the pen so I know nothing about it. You have to vent the kiln up to 1000?oF for the firing of all of the lustres. You can do this by cracking open the door or lid. Failure to oxidise can cause scum.

* i took a bottle lid and wedged the little gold bottle into it with foam rubber. no tip. msclumsy

* Bert I will keep the venting in mind thx
Rod

* I have used the gold pen and it works great until you wipe it then it comes off and goes really dull not a good product as far as I can see. You can scrub it right off no problem in the end.....
Alan

* Well that sucks!
I figured it was a good product since i can barley get ahlod of one from my supplier. I guess i will ask what else they have

* Yes I was very disapointed it looks so nice after firing but its not good if you can wipe it right off....
Alan

* Is it possible that you didn't fire it to a high enough temperature?
B

* well the insturctions that came with it said slumping temps were hot enough to fire it....if you use if at fusing temps it burns off....
Alan

* what is your slumping temperature?

* High end is 1120 with a 15 minute hold.....
Alan

* Try the Hanovia for ceramics, not glass, and buy a Kemper Pen too. Makes more sense to me than the ferro pen thingy. You get pure luster and a permanent tool to draw with. Fill with any color luster you want. And use Rosanna's no spill device. Now she tells me.
Mature at 1300...then after that it can survive full fuse temps. Also can be capped.

* Thanks I might just try those....do they come in different colors?
Alan

* I have used the Ferro gold pen many times, both at full fuse and at slump and have never experienced it coming off. Mostly I use it to sign work. I prefer the Kemper pens for accenting work as I find the Ferro pen point a bit to thick and a little hard to control the amount that comes out since you depress the point to pick up the gold and can end up putting down a 'blob'.
Just my 2 cents...
Michele

* The pens are permanent and you fill them with whatever color of luster you want. I have a half a dozen that are dedicated to particular lusters...but you don't have to do it that way. Just clean them exceedingly well between uses and you can use just a single pen.
The Hanovia comes in the metal lusters. Gold, white gold, platinum, copper, silver, and in colors...black red blue... I've used all these that are listed with the pens, which you should be able to buy at any ceramics store. I've also tried a brand of precious metal lusters made by Duncan with less than stellar results. stick with the Hanovia.
[img:363:500]http://static.flickr.com/19/110238257_8ae7eeff23.jpg[/img]

* I just took Patty Gray's class recently. She had a wonderful solution to the tiny bottle 'tip problem'. She took a 2 by 2 inch piece of glass and superglued the bottom of the bottle to the glass. It makes it really sturdy!
Barb

* Supplier would be a retail ceramics supply store. If you live in or near a small city...you should have one of these. If you don't have one, google Hanovia and shop around for a supplier there. I tried the Duncan brand and it was a real loser... Stick with the Hanovia.
Supply list:
Kemper pen. Comes in medium or fine lines. Get one of each. See which does what for you. Forget the ferro pen, it's like a fat and unwieldy paint pen and is unmanageable in my estimation.
[img:363:500]http://static.flickr.com/19/110238257_8ae7eeff23.jpg[/img]
Hanovia Liquid Bright Gold Luster for ceramics. One bottle. Small and spendy, but it goes a long way if you don't spill it. If you want white gold or platinum (shiny silver in color...both of them) or copper, they have those too. And colors...they have black, red, blue....
Use a plastic tooth pick and dip into the bottle of luster (oh, you'll want to get the Gold Essence too. It will be used to thin your lusters as they age and get thick. Use regular mineral spirits to clean your pen. Don't allow the lusters to get contaminated or they are ruined.) Now drip what is on the toothpick into the cup of the pen. It won't run out the nib. It's too viscous for that...but once you set the nib to paper or glass...it will flow smoothly and evenly...just like ink from a pen. You can draw fine fluid and lovely lines with this liquid gold.
It will appear brown on application (gold does...others have different colors) and it's best used in a very well ventilated area. Fire to 1300 in a vented kiln. You have to vent or the lusters don't mature properly. To vent you can simply prop the lid a quarter to half inch... or even just pull the plug out of the peep hole. Anneal properly. You can apply lusters and mature them (fire them to set them to permanence ) in a bend cycle. That works nicely. Or if you have other processes, simply mature at 1300 to set, then in future firings, even full fuse firings, the gold will be safe.
[img:500:479]http://static.flickr.com/39/110274193_8385e69b69.jpg[/img]
You can paint these on with a brush too. Use a liner brush and one long narrow bristled brush to see what kinds of lines you can paint. Apply in a thin coat and fire. Your results, if washy mean it's too thin. If brown and crunchy looking means it's too thick. Here's where practice makes perfect. The Kemper pen (thin line) is fail safe. YOu have to work hard to make it fail.
This is an example of line drawings (not good ones, but nice line quality nonetheless ) with black and gold lusters, pen or brush. You can see that with the brush I got it too thin in a few places.
[img:744:1024]http://static.flickr.com/52/110281352_1196b001fc_b.jpg[/img]

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